Deep dive with Dr. Jacqueline Brassey on Emotional Flexibility

00:00:02: Become the CEO of your life.

00:00:06: The Tea Talk with Oliver Herrmann and Kai

00:00:09: Schrader.

00:00:13: Our guest today is a leading expert in the field of mental health, resilience and sustainable performance.

00:00:20: She is co-director of Healthy Workforces and director of research at the McKinsey Health Institute and serves as a supervisory board member of Save

00:00:29: the

00:00:29: Children, among many other things.

00:00:32: She has over twenty-five years of experience in business and academia, focusing on leadership, organizational development and positive neuroscience.

00:00:42: Prior to joining McKinsey, she spent most of her career at Unilever, where she had various roles in the HR and organizational diagnostics.

00:00:51: In addition, she has an impressive academic track record.

00:00:55: She holds bachelor as well as master degrees in business, policy and organizational sciences, effective neuroscience and a PhD in economics and business.

00:01:06: She is also active as a researcher focusing on sustainable human development and performance.

00:01:12: with an interdisciplinary approach from neuroscience, economics, and leadership.

00:01:16: As a result, she has published over one hundred articles, book chapters, podcasts, and books, where now pieces of work are delivered calm, how to learn and lead in a volatile world, and authentic confidence.

00:01:30: Welcome to today's Tea Talk, Jacqueline Brassille.

00:01:34: We are very honored to have you with us.

00:01:37: Thank you so much.

00:01:38: It's an honor to be here, and I look forward to our conversation.

00:01:44: Jackie, let's start with a pivotal moment in your life.

00:01:48: You've spoken about experiencing confidence crisis yourself, which changed your at least business life.

00:01:57: I don't know how it somehow affected your private life as well.

00:02:01: Can you take us a bit back in time and just make us better understand what happened there to you?

00:02:07: How did it affect you personally and professionally?

00:02:11: Yeah, I coined the term confidence crisis during that period that I experienced extreme anxiety and uncertainty when I was in a new role at a new organization.

00:02:22: And this is the name I gave it.

00:02:24: I thought, my confidence is lacking.

00:02:26: What's happening here?

00:02:27: And it's not helping me in my work.

00:02:30: It's holding me back.

00:02:31: And it happened when I moved after Unilever.

00:02:34: I joined McKinsey in And gradually it happened in the first year in that role towards the second year.

00:02:43: And what really was happening was that there was a lot of change.

00:02:48: And I felt more and more uncertain about being good enough.

00:02:52: Now, I mean, what really happened is something that I found out later.

00:02:56: But I called it a confidence crisis because I felt my confidence was so low that I couldn't perform at my best.

00:03:01: And that was debilitating but also irritating.

00:03:04: And so I started to talk about it and I've done a TED Talk on it as well.

00:03:08: It has been a journey since I started to study what was really going on and I made it very public, which was part of the, what I later call a healing process as well.

00:03:19: What you're basically saying is that after fifteen years of already being a professional at Unilever, where you were also in charge of certain responsibilities, which were probably like having a strong impact on the company.

00:03:34: Was this your first time that you experienced these kind of emotions and effects on yourself?

00:03:41: Or did that also happen once and again in beforehand?

00:03:45: No, I think I always had low-grade anxiety.

00:03:49: So that is basically what it was.

00:03:52: And I never really tackled it.

00:03:54: And indeed.

00:03:55: I spent ten years originally from my last two roles.

00:03:57: I was Global Director of HR Information and Global Director of Organizational Diagnostics, got my PhD along the way and I was early forties.

00:04:05: You know, I also was a bit surprised to have this experience.

00:04:10: But it happened.

00:04:12: It happened before, but it accelerated.

00:04:14: It became much stronger.

00:04:15: And I think part of that was that I stepped out of my comfort zone in a bigger way than I ever did before, and so it had more impact on that experience.

00:04:24: So it put a spotlight almost on it, on the experience, but also on... what was happening with me.

00:04:30: At that moment somehow I realized that I needed to do something with it and I realized very strongly then that if I did not do something about it or with it that I had to face this challenge basically then I may regret twenty years down the line because I had so much at the same time fire and ambition in me and I thought well if I don't tackle this thing and it's a scary thing.

00:04:53: I don't know where it's going to lead me, but it's going to hold me back.

00:04:57: And I think I will regret that.

00:04:59: And now I still have the chance to actually look this beast in the eye.

00:05:03: And then by doing that, I actually realized that because I started to study the topic and I approached it through the researcher's eye.

00:05:11: So I started to learn about it from a scientific perspective as well.

00:05:14: That's why I went back to university and study neuroscience.

00:05:18: Then I realized it's not about me.

00:05:20: It's not me personally alone, actually.

00:05:23: Many people have this experience and it's a normal biological response, an adaptive response to a situation.

00:05:30: Totally helped me to understand and work towards developing my own skills, but that, of course, I also leveraged to build a journey helping others.

00:05:39: And that has brought me on the path of resilience and adaptability, which only increased since then.

00:05:44: I mean, in hindsight, it's a nice journey, but it wasn't an easy process.

00:05:49: Before we dive into that, you mentioned in a side note that you have always dealt with what you call low-grade anxiety.

00:05:56: May you just break down the term fast and maybe also speak a bit about how it might have affected yourself from maybe your childhood up until you got to the point where you realized there's some more work to do?

00:06:09: Yeah, I also started to try to understand what anxiety really is, right?

00:06:14: It's like a response.

00:06:16: an uncertainty about something as human beings.

00:06:19: So the way I explain it in a simple way, I mean, technically, there are so many different ways of explaining this, but very simply, our brain has a very important role in keeping us safe and preserve energy.

00:06:30: And we predict our world based on what we have in our backpack.

00:06:33: So we navigate through the world by what we've learned from the past.

00:06:36: And with incoming information, we then make decisions about what to do next.

00:06:41: If there is uncertainty, we naturally don't like that.

00:06:44: We like to be in control.

00:06:46: This anxiety is related to the unpredictability, but then some people have a stronger nature and a tendency to respond stronger, and it may also come from our beliefs.

00:06:55: So my belief system is built on, I had a fantastic upbringing, but there is part of my upbringing that was focused very much about a rooted in Orthodox Protestantism, Christianity in the Netherlands.

00:07:10: You have those in Germany as well.

00:07:13: And part of that, in my case, didn't always work.

00:07:16: I felt like I was never good enough.

00:07:19: And that was a belief that really helped me back and made me also anxious.

00:07:23: So my nature is anxious, but then my belief system didn't work.

00:07:27: And so that had influenced me in how I navigated the world and it would materialize or it would come out, you know, in moments for big events, exams, doing new things, etc.

00:07:43: And so That came eventually to a point where it became bigger and bigger and helped me back from being at my best.

00:07:51: Can you emphasize on this correlation between your upbringings and you're talking about Orthodox Christianity on the one hand side and then also like not feeling good enough?

00:08:01: How did that play together?

00:08:03: How was the one derived from the other?

00:08:05: In my case, because everybody is unique, it turned into something that was not helpful for me.

00:08:11: So people with a faith and a religion can get a lot of strength out of that.

00:08:15: And spirituality is good for your mental health, right?

00:08:18: And it was not the intention by my parents or my environment to give me this anxiety.

00:08:23: But that's what I did.

00:08:25: I somehow internalized what I learned in the past.

00:08:29: And that's the explanation I give to its narrative I built.

00:08:31: I somehow translated that into... a combination of not being good enough, perfectionism.

00:08:39: And if you know a little bit about Christianity or the Orthodox Christianity in the Netherlands, there is a lot of emphasis on being sinful and being born sinful and therefore being bad as a person.

00:08:50: And that I internalize that during my upbringing very much.

00:08:55: And it's always there, it's still there, but I've managed.

00:08:58: It became maladaptive for me and I now have turned it around to you know, giving it the place that it's not maladaptive, that it actually is okay.

00:09:07: But that is the search and the journey that I've been through.

00:09:10: But that can feed into anxiety, right?

00:09:12: The other thing is that you may be hypersensitive because of your character, you may worry a lot, all kinds of reasons that make you more anxious.

00:09:20: In my case, in this new job, and we'll go into that, a lot of things came together.

00:09:25: And it has a lot to do with the basis, the foundation of the mindsets, the background, the experiences that a person has.

00:09:31: also the situation that you're in and the way you take care of your brain health or not.

00:09:36: My coping mechanism was not helping me set myself up for success.

00:09:41: I'm sure we will talk about it, that it had to do with trying to working harder, harder, sleeping less and less and that basically makes it even worse.

00:09:51: I can very much relate to that, what you just said.

00:09:55: And I guess many people can, because I mean, you talked about religion as a cause or a driver for that.

00:10:02: I mean, this focus on deficits.

00:10:05: I mean, I can find in many places, starting at school, where you're told what you cannot do at work the same.

00:10:13: Just look at typical performance reviews.

00:10:16: Very few are focusing on strengths.

00:10:18: A lot of them are focusing on deficits.

00:10:20: So it's all over the place.

00:10:22: And it does something to people.

00:10:24: Now, what I was wondering, what can people change realistically?

00:10:28: I mean, we can't change the environment we are in and we can't just say, be more confident.

00:10:33: And even for you, I mean, with such a strong experience at Unilever, but also from academia, this happened.

00:10:41: And I can tell my own personal story.

00:10:43: People kept telling me in my early days, That's brilliant work.

00:10:48: Brilliant work.

00:10:49: The only person that didn't believe them was me.

00:10:52: So what can we change realistically and

00:10:55: how?

00:10:56: I mean, we can't avoid anxiety.

00:10:58: We have it and it has something good as well.

00:11:01: But we can't expect everyone to study neuroscience.

00:11:05: So it would help a lot.

00:11:06: Well, there is so much you can do.

00:11:08: And it's one approach that I have explained in my book on Authentic Confidence is related to acceptance and commitment therapy and training that I deep dived in.

00:11:18: And that's around emotional flexibility.

00:11:21: That's a skill set that you can build.

00:11:23: And you can learn to become comfortable with the discomfort that you may experience.

00:11:30: You can learn how to calm yourself.

00:11:35: I mean, it's super empowering.

00:11:37: You said something that I'm reflecting on, you know, that was exactly why I wanted to write this book.

00:11:42: You cannot change your environment, though you can, right?

00:11:46: I have a friend who did her PhD.

00:11:48: talks a lot about being locked at the job.

00:11:50: A lot of people think they can't change their environment, but they can be much more empowered than they think.

00:11:55: But in case, that's why I wanted to write a book, you actually want to be with the situation.

00:11:59: that is challenging, it is possible to have a set of skills to manage that situation better.

00:12:07: And that is all included in the concept of emotional flexibility.

00:12:12: And there are a set of skills, I have thirty-two tools that I discuss in this book.

00:12:17: but it comes down to becoming very much also training a muscle of interoception, training a muscle of understanding what actually are your triggers, what is happening to you and where does that sit, a lot of embodiment and breathing work, but also understanding the thoughts that you may have.

00:12:34: And emotional flexibility is very much centered around thoughts and understanding what they actually can do and how you can be with your thoughts without the need to respond to it.

00:12:46: You don't need to believe your thoughts.

00:12:48: That sounds very silly, but it's basically at the core.

00:12:55: And it sounds to me like looking inward.

00:12:58: And we had many guests on this podcast talking about it, which is difficult in such a noisy environment we are in.

00:13:06: Now you said you can change the environment.

00:13:09: I would be curious how to.

00:13:11: And in any case, you have to become active.

00:13:13: But our good practices that help you to train that muscle of interception, as you just

00:13:19: said it.

00:13:20: Yeah.

00:13:20: I mean, the thirty two tools are behind five processes.

00:13:22: So maybe I'll walk you through five processes of emotional flexibility.

00:13:27: And that is based on clinical psychology.

00:13:29: One of the founders is Stephen Hayes.

00:13:31: He inspired me, but also endorsed this work.

00:13:34: It's basically part of.

00:13:36: clinical practice.

00:13:36: And then what I did with this work is I put it into the working context.

00:13:40: And the five processes are psychological processes.

00:13:44: And the first one is about connecting and checking in with purpose and meaning.

00:13:48: And that is basically the anchor, understanding what matters to you, your values, who you want to be, how you want to show up.

00:13:56: And that is a practice that you can apply.

00:13:57: You can check in once a day, right, with what matters to you or you can do a gratitude exercise.

00:14:03: or you spend a bit more time to build that picture and then derive from it.

00:14:06: So the moment you have to make difficult decisions, and you are on a crossroads, and that happens a lot in our work during the day, if you find a way to check in, to tap into what matters to you, it helps you make that decision.

00:14:19: So that gives you the flexibility to then be uncomfortable with a difficult decision, because you know that what you decide is in line with what matters to you.

00:14:27: That is one process.

00:14:29: May I ask you something in between?

00:14:32: He is.

00:14:33: So I would imagine that, especially in the working context, for a lot of people, they might realize what matters in a certain situation for them.

00:14:42: But then at the same time, they might also realize that what matters to them is actually right now not relevant for the company and therefore nothing to act on.

00:14:54: How would you consult someone in such a situation?

00:14:59: Yeah, I think there are always multiple layers because it may be the immediate what matters to you now, but there may be also another what matters to me at a higher level.

00:15:09: So what matters to me now, just imagine you want to, let's say something futile.

00:15:15: I want to have a moment of pause because I'm tired.

00:15:18: That is not in the interest of my current organization because I have a meeting to go into.

00:15:23: Maybe I can postpone that moment of pause because what matters to me bigger is to have a stable role, a stable job, and I can recover later.

00:15:31: I mean, there are always multiple layers, and that is the consideration.

00:15:35: But if it becomes in conflict with the highest objective that you have, maybe you work for an organization that has a commercial purpose, but you want to work for an organization that has a more social purpose, but salary is important for you, and then the trade-off is that you need to hand back a bit of salary, then you need to Get in touch with yourself.

00:15:53: How can I actually make it possible?

00:15:55: Is it feasible for me, yes or no?

00:15:57: And if it's not feasible, then can you find a way to live with that situation for now, but maybe build a story for later?

00:16:03: So it's always an iterative process, understanding the multiple layers of things that matter to you, and then find the best possible way of how you can continue to look at yourself in the mirror.

00:16:14: I find this brilliant and so important that what you just said, it's not an either or.

00:16:19: It's not either commercial or social.

00:16:22: It's a deliberate choice based on that reflection process, which may end up for one staying happy then, because it's a deliberate choice.

00:16:31: And for the other one, turning a different crossroad, I find it so important.

00:16:34: Thank you.

00:16:35: And at the same time, what you just stated does also underline the importance of being aware of and staying true to your values and what actually matters to you.

00:16:51: Now, I would be interested, Jackie, what's your experience and maybe also from all the research that you looked into?

00:17:01: What happens normally to people if they stay incongruent?

00:17:10: whether values or what truly matters for them being in resistance to what they do for a longer period of time, meaning not maybe half a year, a year or two, but maybe even more like five, ten, fifteen years doing something they're really in resistance to and they know they do it out of security reasons.

00:17:29: Maybe they have to pay a mortgage or whatever, so they think they have to do it.

00:17:32: There's no way out, but they're also feeling it's really not what I'm here for.

00:17:39: What happens to those people?

00:17:40: What might happen?

00:17:42: It very much depends on whether they feel they are the victim or they have made a conscious choice.

00:17:50: If you feel you're stuck and you're locked and you're a victim of the environment and the situation that you're in and you don't actually... And you're conscious of it, right?

00:17:59: That's another one that's very important.

00:18:01: A lot of people may not even be conscious about it.

00:18:04: Then you can eventually even get sick.

00:18:08: It can impact your health and well-being consciously or unconsciously both ways.

00:18:13: It may also lead to an aha moment at some point and then a complete counter reaction.

00:18:18: There are different ways to respond to that situation.

00:18:20: But I see, and that's also related to the research that my friend is doing, you basically get disengaged.

00:18:27: Disengaged can impact your holistic health and well-being.

00:18:31: But it has another impact, you know, performing at your best and it may impact how you respond to your environment, how you respond to your personal situation, it may impact your family life, your happiness, etc.

00:18:43: You know, for those who make a conscious decision because that is the choice that they made for various reasons that they have tapped into that.

00:18:52: and they have another purpose.

00:18:53: So it is very dependent on whether you make a conscious choice for a good reason and your purpose lies somewhere else versus whether you actually think you don't have a choice and you have to do it that way.

00:19:05: And therefore you're going around your day, about your day with a moaning about how bad life is and how things are happening to you instead of how you can actually take Ownership of your life.

00:19:18: I very strongly believe in that, but different gradations, right?

00:19:22: Everybody has to deal with things in life and not everybody is fortunate to be doing everything they want, but there's a lot of self-empowerment possible.

00:19:30: Now, coming to the second process, maybe, we started off with purpose and meaning.

00:19:36: As one of those clinical processes you put into the book context, what would be the second one?

00:19:43: The second one is about being in the moment, being mindful.

00:19:47: mindfulness, being present.

00:19:50: And that is very difficult in the world that we live in today, but that is a muscle to flex.

00:19:56: And you can flex that in different ways.

00:19:58: I have a sense you two are very aware of that and practicing it.

00:20:02: You can do it in the traditional way.

00:20:03: You can also do it by different techniques, including ice baths and everything for the advanced amongst us.

00:20:12: That also is a concept that we explain in the liberal calm book around interception, but actually a bit broader, the dual awareness.

00:20:21: Being aware of, and it's almost when we talk about the skylight that you can put above your head and you can look at the situation, but you can also look inside.

00:20:29: So it's dual awareness or integrated awareness.

00:20:32: What is needed in this particular moment versus what do I need now to be effective in this particular moment?

00:20:38: When you hear this for the first time, you think it's very abstract and it's very weird.

00:20:42: But this is if you start building that muscle, it becomes almost automatically.

00:20:46: And one of the ways to explain it is that you can catch the arrow in the moment.

00:20:50: It's really almost like martial arts.

00:20:52: You know, you can become fluent in it.

00:20:55: And what is needed in the moment is sometimes not the same as what you need.

00:20:58: So going back to my authentic confidence crisis.

00:21:02: I often had this brain freeze.

00:21:04: In the moment I would freeze, I was asked a question, I couldn't even respond because I wanted to give the perfect answer and then my brain would freeze.

00:21:13: So it's a very strong reaction in the brain that then sets off, activates your sympathetic nervous system and that makes that you basically turn into almost a fight flight mode, a survival mode, and you have less access to the thinking part of your brain.

00:21:28: Let's say it like that.

00:21:30: then that was very debilitating, but actually what was needed in the moment, it was all about, for me, my experience was very much about me, but what needed in the moment was a problem we were solving.

00:21:40: If you learn that dual awareness, it's actually all about, hey, what are we trying to do here?

00:21:45: And in order to respond to that effectively, I just need to now apply a quick tool so I can become calm, but I can be with this problem.

00:21:52: Mindfulness is a very important, and awareness is a very important tool.

00:21:55: So that's process.

00:21:56: two, lots of different tools to get there.

00:21:59: How would you do that in the moment?

00:22:01: Because it happens a lot of times that you just describe with your freezing moment, so unable to come up with any response in the search of the perfect response.

00:22:11: What would be something that you experienced helpful in

00:22:15: getting out of this?

00:22:17: Training with a very simple tool that we often use at McKinsey is the APR awareness pause and reframe response.

00:22:24: First of all, it's becoming aware that this is happening to you.

00:22:27: and then actually training with different tools that can help you.

00:22:30: If it's an SOS moment, then it's all about the breath.

00:22:34: Becoming aware where your breath is in your body, it's often when you're in that high stress zone, it's actually coming from your chest, and then removing it to basically the area where your belly is.

00:22:46: And becoming aware that you can breathe, you have different breathing techniques, and you have wonderful podcasts around this already, one of the tools that Andrew Huberman has emphasized a lot and he calls it the physiological sigh.

00:23:00: It's basically a breath in with an extra breath in and a very long breath out.

00:23:05: You can do that three times.

00:23:07: And very important is that you learn in that moment.

00:23:10: I'm explaining it now, it takes time to explain right, but in the moment it takes almost no time and nobody knows about it.

00:23:15: You breathe out longer than you breathe in because you can actually breathe yourself into a panic attack as well.

00:23:21: What that does is it has an effect in activating or recruiting the parasympathetic nervous system and become more in balance again, because what you'll have in a panic attack is that your sympathetic nervous system is roused.

00:23:32: Now, that is the best and the fastest way to just calm.

00:23:37: But there are tools in the different books that we have that have three different layers, the SOS tools, the go about your day tools.

00:23:46: but also the maintenance tools.

00:23:48: So if I would try to do an SOS tool, but I actually have not slept for a week, which is part of the maintenance tool, then it's very hard to apply it successfully.

00:23:58: So we also talk always about, hey, put an operating model in place so that when you try to use a tool, it actually falls on fertile ground and sleep is extremely important.

00:24:11: So if you have to start somewhere, it's that.

00:24:14: And then it's all about, do you feed yourself for brain health?

00:24:20: Do you exercise or move for brain health, etc.

00:24:23: So in that moment, the breathing exercises, there are exercises that you can do with your brain, with your eyes, the way you look at things.

00:24:33: But the most powerful one is the breathing and checking in with your body and feeling where your tension is and let go.

00:24:40: If you have the space to take a quick break, I would say go for a walk or go to a natural break, go to the loo and apply some exercises there and go back.

00:24:49: I've done those as well.

00:24:50: But sometimes you can't, right?

00:24:52: You're on the spot and you have to perform.

00:24:54: And then for authentic confidence and for deliberate calm, it's all about the breathing.

00:24:59: So now that we have been talking about the APR tool, we started with awareness.

00:25:05: If I understood you right, awareness is about, oh, there is a challenging situation actually happening around me.

00:25:12: And I become aware that it's time to breathe in order not to, for example, get into this brain-free situation that you just talked about.

00:25:21: Now, I have been breathing.

00:25:23: You said the R stands for reframe.

00:25:27: What does that mean?

00:25:29: Yeah, reframe or respond effectively.

00:25:31: A reframe can be a mind tool.

00:25:34: So the APR is also trained by, and we have a protocol in the Liberty Calm, where you basically keep a little diary for a week or two weeks, or you do it longer, where you write down at the end of the day four moments where you were experiencing this stress situation.

00:25:52: That's the awareness.

00:25:52: You train the awareness muscle.

00:25:55: And what you do is you pay attention to.

00:25:57: how does this show up for me.

00:25:58: So some people may feel stressed when they notice that they start shaking.

00:26:03: Or they don't know the answer, their brain is blocked.

00:26:06: Or they have sweaty armpits.

00:26:08: I mean, stress comes in different ways for different people.

00:26:12: Or maybe they have a strong emotional reaction.

00:26:15: So that's the first thing.

00:26:16: Become aware of those moments.

00:26:17: And then you write down what is actually happening in the moment.

00:26:21: What do I experience?

00:26:22: What do I think?

00:26:23: And how do I respond?

00:26:24: Now, once you know, You have trained yourself a little bit and you become aware of your patterns.

00:26:29: Then the pause is about, check in with yourself and becoming aware.

00:26:33: This is now happening.

00:26:35: And becoming aware of what you need.

00:26:38: The reframe responds and reframe is particularly around the mindsets.

00:26:42: So you may become aware of your mindsets that are unhelpful in the moment.

00:26:46: You may need to look at it through a different lens.

00:26:48: So we have seven mindsets that we talk about also in our Deliberate Conbook.

00:26:52: because you may become aware that what is currently needed in the situation is not helpful and therefore, for example, if you have an expert mindset versus an open mindset, expert mindset may be super helpful in a situation where you are the expert, you need to respond fast, and the situation is such that the house is on fire, you're a firefighter, there's no way, you know, you need to think and debate, you need to respond.

00:27:15: In other situations, and we are living in a world more and more like that, high stakes and familiar territory, It's important that we do the right thing, but we don't know what we need to know.

00:27:25: Then you need an open mindset.

00:27:27: And so reframe is all about, hey, I'm actually looking at it in a certain way.

00:27:30: That's why I feel stressed.

00:27:32: Can I look at it in another way?

00:27:33: Is there something else?

00:27:35: So reframe is all about that response.

00:27:37: Maybe it's not about my thought processes.

00:27:39: It's about I need to move.

00:27:41: I need to take a deep breath.

00:27:43: I need to have something to eat.

00:27:45: So that's something that you learn.

00:27:47: And it often happens in a very iterative way.

00:27:50: It is not mechanical in the current world, especially in the world where we also need to learn on the spot.

00:27:59: We need to build learning agility, and so it is a constant feedback process.

00:28:04: Wonderful.

00:28:05: Thank you.

00:28:06: So it's very practical and very useful.

00:28:08: I would have many questions, but maybe move on to process number three.

00:28:14: Process number three is called acceptance,

00:28:16: which is different from awareness, obviously, because you name it separately.

00:28:20: It's very much around self-compassion, being kind, being okay with the situation that is there, and accepting, inviting in the feeling and the experience that you have.

00:28:33: I still have a lot of these moments and I know when they're happening and it doesn't mean you just need to fall over and accept what happens.

00:28:40: Sometimes you need to find a way, I mean you're disappointed or when you're angry to accept.

00:28:46: So it's the opposite of negative positivity, it's also about let the good, bad and the ugly be there and find a way to process that you're disappointed or to find a way to process the experience that you have without getting stuck into it.

00:29:02: And accepting a situation doesn't mean that you fall over.

00:29:05: Sometimes you cannot change a situation.

00:29:08: I give you an example actually that I have used in different talks many years ago when I was still learning to work through this.

00:29:15: I was at a session, there was a speech by a CEO, and then there was an audience, and the audience could ask questions.

00:29:21: And after the talk, I thought, my husband actually was with me there.

00:29:25: And he said, I think you may have a good question here.

00:29:27: I said, I do, but I was a little bit nervous.

00:29:30: that because it was high profile audience, I thought if I ask a stupid question, I may look, you know, I got nervous a bit.

00:29:35: But then I thought, I need to practice what I preach.

00:29:38: I said, I actually have a good question.

00:29:40: So I put my hand up and I was ready to go in the moment.

00:29:43: But what happened at the moment was that the person with the microphone was walking towards me, but along the way he chose to pick somebody else in the audience first and he said, I'll come to you in a minute.

00:29:54: And that minute made a massive difference for me because then my brain could go nuts and I had this anxiety and I thought, oh my gosh, what have I done?

00:30:01: And my heart started to beat.

00:30:03: You know, it's that feeling before you go on to a big stage.

00:30:07: And acceptance in that very moment meant Because the immediate reaction is you don't want to feel it You want to ignore it.

00:30:15: You want to push it away.

00:30:16: You don't want your heart to beat.

00:30:17: So you're trying desperately somehow to get the beating of your heart down Which is paradoxical because the moment you start doing that it gets worse.

00:30:26: So get the negative feeling out of your body gets makes it worse.

00:30:29: So I started to practice in the moment.

00:30:31: Please start beating as hard as you can be here with me.

00:30:35: It's okay.

00:30:35: Whatever happens.

00:30:36: I accept the situation and then I use a lot of talking about it, that it happens.

00:30:41: Even if it happens on stage, I say, you know, I'm actually feeling this now, which is a form of acceptance.

00:30:47: And then it's as if the body then says, thank you for seeing me.

00:30:52: It's like this little child that wants attention.

00:30:54: If you give it attention, it calms down because that's all it needs.

00:30:58: It's very scary to do it because that means you really need to be all in.

00:31:02: You can't fake that, but you need to be fine.

00:31:05: With its and then as a part of acceptance as well as acceptance in the moment.

00:31:10: Yeah,

00:31:11: super powerful.

00:31:12: And maybe if I may, there's one thing I would like to add.

00:31:16: And that is from sports famous traveling world champion, Jan Frodeno.

00:31:21: And he has one secret quote unquote.

00:31:25: Now it's no longer secret.

00:31:26: Typically when you're on the bike at eighty, ninety kilometers, something hurts, typically in your legs.

00:31:34: So in the typical responses, as you just said, go away and stay away.

00:31:39: What he did and what made him stronger and outperform all the others was he welcomed this pain and said, well, great that you are here now.

00:31:50: Now we can cycle the rest fifty, forty, whatever kilometers together.

00:31:56: And I have company.

00:31:57: and he kept talking to his pain.

00:32:00: accepting it, embracing it and using it to gain strength from the other's lost strength.

00:32:07: I find this a brilliant example of what acceptance can do.

00:32:12: That's great.

00:32:12: It's the same what I do when I run and I get a stitch.

00:32:15: And you curiously explore where is it actually in my body?

00:32:19: How does it look like?

00:32:21: And being curious in that process, it's acceptance in action.

00:32:26: Fascinating.

00:32:27: So we talked about acceptance.

00:32:28: and mindfulness, and in before and about presence.

00:32:31: So we continue with number four before we move to five.

00:32:36: So the fourth one is about diffusion.

00:32:39: And that's a bit of a difficult word.

00:32:41: But if I give the analogy of a bomb that has a fuse, if you take the fuse out, the bomb cannot explode anymore.

00:32:47: We all remember Donald Duck and this little black ball with a fuse in it, right?

00:32:52: That is what I mean with this.

00:32:54: And that is related to behind acceptance and commitment theory and training, there is relational frame theory.

00:33:01: That's a little bit complicated, but actually extremely complicated.

00:33:05: But the way to explain it is that our brain is very capable of making new connections all the time.

00:33:11: And so the relational frame theory is about, you know, if we connect one thought to the other and we make another connection and another connection, we're always able to have a thought come pop up because it was related to something else.

00:33:27: So for example, if I ask you, and I do that often when I speak to audiences, do not think about a white polar bear.

00:33:36: And I ask people to stand up if they think about a white polar bear.

00:33:40: Polar bears are always white.

00:33:41: That's funny.

00:33:42: I'm saying that now.

00:33:43: Then at some point after a few seconds, everybody stands up, but there's usually one or two that still sit and they're working very hard.

00:33:50: But eventually, What happens is that we see a white polar bear in a red car.

00:33:54: or you know because you start connecting you first of all you cannot unthink thoughts.

00:34:00: But then you start also connecting them to other thoughts because you have to start about something else and when that then starts your brain is always very capable of making those connections.

00:34:10: so accepting that.

00:34:11: Emotional flexibility.

00:34:12: You cannot not think a thought.

00:34:14: That's just not how our brain works.

00:34:15: And if we try to do it, then we certainly start connecting it to other things.

00:34:19: So you have to find a way to understand that your thoughts are not you and that they come and that they can be with you.

00:34:26: Even though you don't like it, you can be still effective.

00:34:28: And so diffusion is also about.

00:34:31: instead of being the thought, saying, I'm having a thought that I'm not good enough is different than saying, I am not good enough.

00:34:40: And that's what this process teaches you about.

00:34:44: And then being with... So I'm having the thought that I'm not good enough.

00:34:48: When I do that, I already distance myself from it, so it feels different than saying I'm not good enough.

00:34:52: It makes a massive difference.

00:34:55: I used to call my negative thoughts, give them a name, so why my little monkey in my brain is called Fred?

00:35:01: So Fred was with me and then I would say, Fred, why don't you sit there?

00:35:04: You join me, we'll do this together, and that made a massive difference.

00:35:08: It sounds very silly, but it makes a massive difference.

00:35:11: And that's what this process is about, so you can start leveraging tools for that.

00:35:16: So you take the fuse out of the bomb, basically.

00:35:20: I'm just thinking about this one because I believe this is so important, and we just spent some sentences on it.

00:35:27: I mean, there's a strong relation between what we think and what we feel, right?

00:35:31: So there are these feedback loops between the both of two.

00:35:35: Why is it so important?

00:35:37: I mean, I understood two key things that just came with what you said.

00:35:43: One is that this identification process that we are all somehow guilty of, meaning we are all identifying automatically with our thoughts if we're not cautious or present.

00:35:57: Where does it come from?

00:35:59: Why is it wrong?

00:36:00: Why is Fred not the same as you?

00:36:02: And if Fred is not the same as you,

00:36:04: who are you?

00:36:06: I don't want to become philosophical.

00:36:08: I just want to make it more easy to get you understand where I'm coming from.

00:36:12: So the key question would be, it seems to be somehow risky to be too much identified with one's own thoughts.

00:36:22: So where does it come from?

00:36:24: And what's the risky part about that?

00:36:27: I'm not sure if it's risky.

00:36:29: I think it's all about function versus dysfunction.

00:36:33: So what do I mean about that?

00:36:36: Because I don't want to be judgmental or dogmatic in any way.

00:36:40: I think what it means is it's helping me or hindering me versus what matters to me.

00:36:46: And if I identify with my thoughts in such a way that it's actually making me unhappy or hindering me in line with what actually matters to me, which identifying with your thoughts can be, in if actually your thought is, I'm not good enough, that's not helpful for me.

00:37:02: But if your thought may be, I'm okay with myself right now, I accept what's happening and it actually is functional in the moment, then it can be perfectly fine.

00:37:13: So I think it is all about function and adaption versus maladaption to a specific objective.

00:37:22: I think the thoughts come from your backpack, right?

00:37:24: It's a combination of who you are, your hardware and also your upbringing.

00:37:27: What's in your backpack?

00:37:28: What are the frames?

00:37:29: What have you learned when you grew up?

00:37:31: What have you observed?

00:37:32: You internalize that.

00:37:33: And then so everybody looks through different lenses.

00:37:37: And so these thoughts are created through those lenses and through what you learn and what you choose to put a spotlight on.

00:37:44: And that gives you a specific challenge.

00:37:47: And it's all in line also with that prediction machine we always predict.

00:37:51: So it probably is explained differently.

00:37:54: And my way of looking at it is a concoction of different research paradigms.

00:37:58: If you would ask hardcore neuroscientists to explain this, you get a different response than if you ask a spiritual leader this.

00:38:03: But I think it's this combination of what you bring with you and what is activated in the moment because of a very complicated background that we all have.

00:38:14: For me, it sounds very reasonable and very well explained.

00:38:20: analytical and scientific way.

00:38:23: At the same time, I'm trying to somehow derive the, we call it Altaxtauklichkeit in Germany, right?

00:38:31: The way to really make that happen, what you just talked about in normal life.

00:38:35: So if I paint an easy picture, something like somebody hurt you in whatever shape or form, right?

00:38:42: And you feel angry about that person.

00:38:45: And you might realize at this point of time, it's not in my favor right now.

00:38:49: If I feel angry about that person and react on the anger, like, bad things can happen.

00:38:55: And I know that.

00:38:56: But still, I feel it.

00:38:57: And it feels so in just what just happened.

00:39:01: And I just have to, right?

00:39:02: And then in the evenings, you talk about the situation with your friends, and you're like, I knew it wasn't right at this point of time, but I just couldn't do it differently.

00:39:08: And everyone is just nodding with their heads because they all know about these situations.

00:39:13: Now we have you saying well at this point of time you just shouldn't identify and you should think about like what's suiting you and what not and this is where I tried at the beginning to somehow build this connection between how you think and how you feel and how the combination of both is massively affecting your behavior.

00:39:33: So in these kind of situations like.

00:39:37: How can someone apply something from your techniques in order to be more authentic with their own values and what to really do instead of what you want to do?

00:39:47: Yeah, so in this particular situation, you cannot control the world, right?

00:39:51: So what people say about you or what they do in a specific moment is their choice.

00:39:56: That's a particular example where I always say, where do you lie the responsibility?

00:40:01: But you cannot determine that person saying something, but you can determine how you respond to it.

00:40:06: And then ask yourself, why is this impacting me?

00:40:09: What is this doing to me?

00:40:11: Why is this actually making me so angry?

00:40:13: What is happening here?

00:40:15: So this is not about a thought, it's about something that happens, right?

00:40:18: So why is this impacting me so me?

00:40:20: Well, where actually something is impacting me, whether it's pain, there is also importance.

00:40:25: So what is important to me?

00:40:27: And then what choice do I have?

00:40:30: first of all, find a way to process whatever you're going through, but then what choice do I have to do about this?

00:40:35: There are very tactical ways, you know, you can actually say then, you know, is there something that I can do about this?

00:40:41: Sometimes you can by having a calm conversation and then you can make a choice to not react in the moment, but find the right moment to react and to reach out to this person.

00:40:50: And if you've tried that, maybe then you also can accept in the moment and say, well, I've tried it, this person is not open to listening to it and then here's her responsibility of this thing, I just lie back with them and my responsibility is to take care of myself and I don't enjoy it, but I will not let it impact me and you find a way to let it go.

00:41:10: You know, you have a choice, you either sit with it and let it eat you up, which is... Harming you but not the other person and by going to the person you distanciate yourself from it But only if you're honest yourself guy.

00:41:22: if you're not honest that actually this hurt me because maybe there is something with me.

00:41:26: I feel hurt because I want to be seen.

00:41:28: I feel you know, that's always a soul searching journey.

00:41:31: It depends on who would ask me that question.

00:41:34: That is really harming and it's a really tough thing.

00:41:36: Then I would also recommend go and work with a coach on this, right?

00:41:39: Sometimes you cannot do emotional flexibility alone.

00:41:42: It's not like reading the book.

00:41:43: This is a muscle to flex and you do that sometimes on your own journey with the tools that you get.

00:41:48: Sometimes you just ask for help along the way.

00:41:51: And the identification process is also about being honest with yourself and about your ego.

00:41:56: What matters to you?

00:41:57: Why does this matter to you?

00:41:59: How can you let things go?

00:42:01: And be very honest about that.

00:42:04: Yeah, I really like that.

00:42:05: it's this transition from this victim mentality into self-accountability and then going from there.

00:42:12: Perfect.

00:42:13: Let's now move over to phase number five.

00:42:16: Process number five, it's all about self-in-context, it's called.

00:42:19: And the easiest way to explain it is stand on a balcony versus being in the dance, taking a bit of distance.

00:42:26: Actually, there are six processes.

00:42:28: So this is self in context.

00:42:30: The last one is committed action.

00:42:31: That's more about how you put it in practice.

00:42:33: But self in context is more the deeper work, understanding what are the different layers that drive you to your deep values, your deep beliefs, and then how does that eventually lead to specific behavior.

00:42:47: It's also about building the muscle of learning about making it very explicit how you think, and your experience is so journaling as a tool, and taking a different perspective.

00:43:01: It's more about taking a distance.

00:43:05: When you swim in the water, it's very difficult to see this, right?

00:43:07: Because water is all around you, but if you go and stand on the balcony, it's a very high-fetched, a lot of what high-fetched is talking about in his work.

00:43:17: That is what this process is about.

00:43:19: So all these processes so far in themselves, they look very isolated, but they're always working together.

00:43:26: To what are you going into distance or into relation here?

00:43:31: To what exactly, to your own mentality, to an internal situation or to an external situation?

00:43:36: An external.

00:43:37: It's a combination.

00:43:38: Sometimes it's an external situation.

00:43:40: Sometimes it's an internal situation.

00:43:43: It's taking a bit of a break and looking at it.

00:43:45: Sometimes it's as simple as... Let's take a nice sleep and look at this thing again in the morning.

00:43:50: Because when you're very tired in the evening, your brain can tell you things that are not really there.

00:43:56: You can literally read things in an email then or not there because you're exhausted and your brain fills in things.

00:44:02: I've had it multiple times that I was very angry at an email in the evening.

00:44:06: And I was very happy that I paused it and looked at it again in the morning and then realizing it was actually very nice email.

00:44:12: It was not that bad.

00:44:13: But it's also taking a bit of a distance.

00:44:16: but you need to be aware that that is what you need in the moment.

00:44:20: So again, the whole common theme for emotional flexibility is this awareness.

00:44:25: So making a pause does help, so distance is not only physical distance, but it can also be distance in time, as you just mentioned.

00:44:34: And when you talk about self in context, what is self for you?

00:44:39: self with regards to just yourself the or is it more like also a deeper look into yourself in context to like what your brain tells you?

00:44:49: is that also being part of this dimension?

00:44:52: It can be in multiple ways.

00:44:53: I mean you talk about emotional flexibility.

00:44:56: learning to see self in context is also looking at things in perspective and That gives meaning to the emotion that you experience right.

00:45:03: it helps you also to look at it in a different way.

00:45:07: So it doesn't mean you need to be physically stepping back.

00:45:11: It can also mean you need to be mentally stepping back a little bit, taking a bit of a distance, and that can be together with the other processes.

00:45:20: So there are the, with the diffusion or with acceptance or with feeling in your values in the moment.

00:45:26: Sometimes it is that skylight that I talk about again, you zoom out what is actually happening here and what is needed.

00:45:33: It made a massive difference for me when I started back then when my confidence crisis was happening and I would have freezes in the meeting when I became aware of that, that I step back a little bit because what happens is if you go through this freeze, this spotlight is on you.

00:45:53: It's all about you and me or about me right in this moment.

00:45:57: The way you learn to put yourself into the context of the situation, it's much more about zooming out.

00:46:03: and what is the problem that we're solving here, which is a much bigger problem than Jackie Brassie in the moment.

00:46:09: We do very interesting work.

00:46:11: we did and we do today.

00:46:13: So it's all about that flexible zooming in and out as well in that moment, which brings us to the last one and to round it off.

00:46:21: I think, Oliver, that's where you're going.

00:46:23: Yeah, exactly.

00:46:25: You can read my mind.

00:46:26: Which is, and if you learn all about all this stuff, how do you put it in action?

00:46:31: or how do you, it's called committed action?

00:46:33: In particular, because I remember a quote, I think in one of your books, or I don't know where I read it or heard it, where you said the paradox of this adaptability or flexibility is that we need to change most when we feel least capable of doing so.

00:46:49: And it's exactly those moments of being of freezing, of being frozen, where we need to change, but we lack the energy.

00:46:57: We don't feel the energy.

00:46:58: Yeah.

00:46:58: Yeah.

00:46:59: The adaptability paradox we talk about in the LibretCom.

00:47:03: Let me explain that quickly, because that helps put the next thing in context.

00:47:07: In the LibretCom, one of the frameworks that we use is the difference between high stakes and low stakes situations versus familiar and unfamiliar territory.

00:47:17: So if you picture a two by two, The high stakes versus unfamiliar territory is basically where we spend a lot of our time these days.

00:47:27: And that's where we need to be very adaptive, where we need to have learning agility, where we need to have this emotional awareness, emotional intelligence, emotional flexibility.

00:47:37: But it's the hardest to do because what happens in those situations is that we tend to default to what we know.

00:47:44: It's like this automatic, this is the biology behind our response, right?

00:47:47: That is what we explain in the book.

00:47:49: Now, committed action is very much about being intentional, how you live your life.

00:47:56: It's not too much about controlling your life.

00:47:58: So one of the tools that we discuss, and I do that in both books, is called your personal operating model.

00:48:04: Everybody has an operating model or a way of living or a way of working, but you can be intentional about it or you just... not and then life happens to you versus you actually lead life.

00:48:16: And sometimes people, they thought it was all about controlling in your day, you know, making sure things happen in a certain way, which is not what this is about.

00:48:23: It's more about setting yourself up for success and also being clear about how do you want to show up and how do you want to respond.

00:48:30: And so committed action means that you are committed to either You want to set yourself up for success and that comes with a couple of tools and quite a bit of work, self-development or you're not, but then you're consciously not doing it and then life leads you.

00:48:45: And one of the tools to build committed action is throughout the years I've done many.

00:48:49: This year I build a health protocol for myself.

00:48:52: I started that in January and then I put things in my operating model like biofeedback, some certain rules about how I sleep, how I move, what I want to eat and then I reconnect with my values.

00:49:04: And that means I'm committed to building a way of living behind the purpose that I have.

00:49:12: And apart from your operating model, you can put things in place like having a personal advisory board or working with a coach, but being intentional about all these things and working on tools to make yourself better.

00:49:25: Or, indeed, as I said, you choose not to, and that's fine too, but then you know the consequences.

00:49:30: And committed action means also then consistency and knowing that sometimes, you know, things may fail and you need to stick at it.

00:49:38: And it's all part of learning and growing.

00:49:40: So coming back to what you stated that in these situations where you demanded the most or we need to be adaptable the most, it's the hardest to actually apply it.

00:49:50: The question is how do we prepare for that?

00:49:53: And my assumption would be the preparation comes in the times where we believe we don't need it, right?

00:49:59: Where it seems that everything is good, the music is playing nicely, everything is fine in our lives, right?

00:50:05: And that's also the most of the time for most of the people, the situation where they are least motivated to do anything because people mostly do things when stuff becomes painful.

00:50:17: So how would you advise someone to prepare for tough times, for fall, for winter, even that it's just spring or summer in their lives.

00:50:27: Yeah, the same topic comes up when we talk a lot in McKinsey Health Institute about preventative health.

00:50:33: People don't want to think about when they're older, when the problems come today, when they actually have a good life and they don't understand yet they're taking specific actions.

00:50:43: I mean, they want immediate gratification.

00:50:45: So how do you do that?

00:50:46: I think it is very much about your belief and making a decision and explaining, building knowledge about how to set yourself up for success.

00:50:55: And I believe much more about.

00:50:58: there is already immediate benefit of this in the moment.

00:51:01: It's not about a burning platform.

00:51:03: It's about, I love, you know, peak performance is not for everyone, but I love the topic of thriving or being at your best in the moment.

00:51:11: And the sun is not always shining.

00:51:13: I mean, if that's the case, if you don't feel challenged, you may ask yourself, are you learning enough?

00:51:17: Are you challenging yourself enough?

00:51:18: But yeah, I think it's about awareness, but it's also about the immediate gains that you get.

00:51:23: Even if you're happy, go lucky, you may feel even better if you take care of yourself.

00:51:26: What does that mean?

00:51:28: So it's not for everybody, but that is, I think, more and more.

00:51:33: And I see that in the working context, people are... crying for it or shouting for it because there is no boring moment in the workplace now.

00:51:41: So it actually gets more pull than you would think.

00:51:46: But yeah, for some people it comes only when they experience the pain.

00:51:49: But building awareness is the first step then, I guess, and then people can pick it up or not.

00:51:54: But there is a lot of immediate gain already.

00:51:57: If you know how you can set yourself up for success and they felt your eat better etc.

00:52:03: Yeah, it feels often that discipline in the first place is just pure effort and there are no gains resulting from that.

00:52:11: But after a while you can actually really start enjoying it and then the pleasure moments.

00:52:17: also do come from that, especially if you compare how you just feel throughout the day, once you've been a bit more disciplined, let's say, better sleep, better nutrition, more water or whatever, doing exercises.

00:52:29: even that it feels hard at the moment.

00:52:31: After a while, you just realize, oh, my days are just so much better if I do it.

00:52:35: And I think these are the feedback loops your brain actually needs to understand, OK, I have to put something into that.

00:52:41: But there's also not only coming some potential longevity gains out of this, but also like good moments on the certain day that I'm doing it.

00:52:50: And maybe that's also something, at least something that I realized that really helped me a lot to change behavior on that one.

00:52:57: I think that's a good transition to an ending.

00:52:59: Now, Jackie, our podcast is called Become CEO of Your Life.

00:53:03: And you have provided us with many, many tools, practices, processes, insights into how to make that possible.

00:53:12: Now, if you could leave our listeners with one last message about confidence, emotional health, something maybe underscore what you have said already or what has not been said what would that be to equip someone even better on that journey to become CEO of one's own life.

00:53:34: Yeah, I was thinking about that before this call and I thought, well, what could be?

00:53:39: I mean, there's so much available.

00:53:41: You can read a lot of what I just talked about and more if you find it.

00:53:45: But when I was reflecting on it, I'm looking at it now, written down, life is so much more fun if you take care of your brain health, investing time in learning about it and see what it does.

00:53:57: And that's so true.

00:54:00: And that is for everybody true.

00:54:02: It's what I would love to leave people ever would say give it a chance learn about it and see what it does for you.

00:54:08: I don't think it will regret.

00:54:10: You will hear more especially in the current economy that are in.

00:54:13: you will hear more about the term brain economy brain health.

00:54:17: As a positive term not only in terms of you know prevention of disease but also.

00:54:23: helping us live a better life in a world that is accelerating, is volatile, and in which we have different tools to work with than twenty years ago.

00:54:32: And it's critical, but it's also a lot of fun.

00:54:35: And the other thing that I want to leave people with in that context is that we didn't mention it at the start, but learning is an important part of it.

00:54:43: I'm going back to university to learn about medicine.

00:54:47: So that's my way of take care of my brain health and you know that goes for a long time.

00:54:53: it doesn't stop at forty.

00:54:55: you keep going and your brain is elastic and there's so much possible so take good care of it.

00:55:01: wonderful.

00:55:01: thank you so much Jackie for this inspiration and also the positive outlook.

00:55:06: brain health and its work yes but it's also a life can be much more fun and I think you're a perfect role model for that one.

00:55:15: And so thank you so much for your time and your valuable insights.

00:55:20: Thank you.

00:55:21: Well, thank you.

00:55:22: And thank you for the questions and for giving me the opportunity to reflect with you on all these topics.

00:55:27: It was wonderful to be here.

00:55:29: Thank you very much.

00:55:33: Mindful moment.

00:55:37: Just stay calm, even in turmoil, inner or outer chaos, even whilst braving the moments that cause us the most anxiety.

00:55:46: That's what Jackie's multi-layered approach is about.

00:55:50: Jackie reminds us that emotional flexibility isn't about perfection.

00:55:56: It's about presence, choice and self-accountability.

00:56:00: It's learning to meet yourself again and again, exactly where you are.

00:56:07: So let's revisit each step so you can apply this recipe step by step into your own daily routines.

00:56:16: Start with connecting to your values.

00:56:19: Ask yourself what really matters to me right now in my life.

00:56:25: When you know your why, even small actions can start to feel overall more aligned to your core.

00:56:33: Then, be in the moment.

00:56:36: Notice what's happening inside you and around you.

00:56:40: The tightness in your chest, the noise in your head, the tone in the room, This is dual awareness, and it is your anchor to the here and now, to where you can decide how you want to act.

00:57:00: Next comes acceptance.

00:57:02: You don't

00:57:03: have to like what you feel, but it's there anyways, so you might as well accept its presence.

00:57:10: Every emotion carries a message.

00:57:13: Maybe fear wants safety, anger might want boundaries, sadness simply might want space.

00:57:21: When you stop fighting them, emotions tend to soften and their actual messages become more clear.

00:57:31: Diffusion is the art of stepping back from your thoughts and the next step of this recipe.

00:57:39: Instead of identifying with the thought, say, I am not good enough, try noticing, I'm having the thought that I'm not good enough.

00:57:49: You are not the thought, you're the observer of it.

00:57:55: You might want to give that voice a name, if you like.

00:57:59: And remember that you're in charge of which voices get the most airtime in your head.

00:58:07: Then take a step onto your inner balcony.

00:58:11: Zoom out, see the bigger picture of what's happening.

00:58:15: This isn't about you and the struggle.

00:58:18: It's about life unfolding.

00:58:21: And overall, it's only a blip in the grand scheme of things.

00:58:27: And finally, take committed action.

00:58:32: None of this matters if it stays theoretical.

00:58:35: So I invite you to choose one small thing today that aligns with who you want to be.

00:58:40: A five-minute walk, a deep breath before replying to an email or a message, a moment of gratitude before sleep.

00:58:49: At the end of the day, change isn't made in massive leaps.

00:58:55: It's created in everyday micro-moments of awareness, follow-through and intentional kindness toward yourself and others.

00:59:12: Wow, what an inspiring session with Jackie.

00:59:15: I took away three main points out of that talk.

00:59:21: One is her sentence, you need to change most when you feel least able to change.

00:59:26: what she called the adaptability paradox and That's why it is super important for us to train for that and to prepare in times when we feel well, in times of stability, in order to be capable to change when we least feel able to change.

00:59:47: A good reminder I found.

00:59:49: And then two practical things she mentioned.

00:59:51: One is she gave her inner critic a name,

00:59:54: Fred,

00:59:56: to create some distance from negative thoughts.

00:59:59: I think this is a super easy to implement tool.

01:00:03: I use Edefix from Asterix and Obelix for this technique, give it a name, and so create some distance.

01:00:09: Works in many occasions.

01:00:11: And then the third one, she called it the APT tool, awareness pause transform.

01:00:17: In particularly useful in moments of

01:00:20: stress

01:00:21: and performance anxiety, one of the elements she recommended there was the physiological sigh by Andrew Huberman.

01:00:29: super easy to implement and super effective.

01:00:33: Now over to you Kai.

01:00:35: Yeah, I think it's amazing that you pointed out these hacks that she was talking about and it reminds me also on her point when she talks about that flexibility or emotional flexibility is actually a muscle that you can train.

01:00:47: And you just mentioned that.

01:00:49: It's so interesting when she's talking about that.

01:00:52: emotional flexibility means it grows by not avoiding pain, but much rather by embracing it to its fullness.

01:01:01: And that's mostly the opposite of what most people aim to do.

01:01:05: But then it's so interesting because it's a counterintuitive at the same site, because when we stop resisting, what is?

01:01:13: Life stops resisting us.

01:01:17: And that's so interesting.

01:01:18: So if we let go and we just embrace the pain, then the pain becomes less.

01:01:23: Instead, we think we have to run away from the pain to become less, but it doesn't work because the pain is always following us.

01:01:30: So that's a good point that I really liked.

01:01:32: Also her thoughts about her crisis and that she realized, at least after some kind of perspective, onto that, that weakness It doesn't equal a crisis.

01:01:45: It's more like an invitation to grow.

01:01:47: And growth starts with when you stop asking, why is this happening to

01:01:51: me?

01:01:52: And much rather, like, what for is this happening?

01:01:56: By going this path, she was showing that resilience is not built by avoiding the fall, but by learning to rise consciously every time we do so.

01:02:09: That was also really fascinating.

01:02:11: And my third point was

01:02:14: this

01:02:15: kind of alignment with your own purpose and that when you fully align with your own principles and values, that life becomes just so much easier because you express what you actually are.

01:02:27: Wonderful

01:02:29: topics.

01:02:30: Thank you for sharing, Kai.

01:02:31: And dear listeners, if you also liked the session, then please follow us.

01:02:37: recommend us.

01:02:38: And if you listen to this episode on Spotify, you can also leave us a feedback or wishes in the comment section on Spotify.

01:02:47: And we always are super happy about five star reviews.

01:02:52: You listen.

01:02:53: We'll be back in two weeks time and up and until then, have a great time, stay healthy and confident.